Fire science

"ImmoralMinority" (araimondo)
11/06/2019 at 09:38 • Filed to: None

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Climate change is an issue, but it isn't the cause of fires in California. We need to have a broader conversation about resource management and environmental policy, but propaganda is in the way.

DISCUSSION (16)

Ash78, voting early and often > ImmoralMinority
11/06/2019 at 09:52

I was a denier/skeptic in my 20s but have come around quite a bit in recent years. I facepalm both sides of it, most of the time.

T he media constantly pointing to singular events as “proof” of a long-term shift is talking out of both sides of their mouth. It’s become so regular, it’s mentioned in basically EVERY article about adverse weather now, at least somewhere in the filler paragraphs. Or human interest stories about the 10,000 year old societies living on tiny islands. Guess what? They’ve faced sea level changes before.

Again, I agree we need to work to fight it, but the hardcore deniers need to stop digging in their heels (“Incandescent bulbs and giant steaks for everyone!” ) and the activist wing needs to tone it down and find realistic solutions that start with the developing world for maximum impact . This is only political to the extent that we believe changes will dis courage economic growth. And it always underestimates our ability to adapt, both economically and personally.

vondon302 > Ash78, voting early and often
11/06/2019 at 09:56

Get out of here with your rational and thoughtful comment!

Are you even a American!

MoCamino > ImmoralMinority
11/06/2019 at 10:00

Clearly you’re confused. Things like wildfires can’t possibly have more than one cause. The world is a simple, easy to understand place. /sarcasm

Sigh...gotta love politicians and celebrities who hear a portion of a conversation, think it fits their narrative and try to use it to further their cause.

someassemblyrequired > ImmoralMinority
11/06/2019 at 10:00

PG&E is so bankrupt that it can’t maintain the system, and has been badly mismanaged for 25 years. While there’s some truth that the the way small scale home generation is handled is punitive, that should reduce the system loads overall. The sooner the PUC pulls its franchise and stiffs its share/bondholders the better. Those folks have had plenty of warning signals. Caveat empto r and all that.

Forestry management in CA is also a joke.

That being said the giant air conditioner/heat pump that’s been created by CO2 certainly isn’t helping, but activists are more worried about virtue signaling than actually you know, doing something. There’s a no-compromises engineering fix for most of those issues if the idiots would stop taking the air out of the room about how not eating meat will end global warming .

vondon302 > ImmoralMinority
11/06/2019 at 10:02

People build where they shouldn’t and too many people in general. Hell we’re doing it here in Michigan building on marsh/swampland and everyone wonders why their basement floods.

Azrek > ImmoralMinority
11/06/2019 at 10:17

I am always a fan of the Beaver Dam episode of South Park. The dam is destroyed, a town is wiped out, but no one goes to rescue the people. They instead focus on who to blame as that is the most important thing.

I work on rescue teams in Florida and it is just sad and pathetic.

nermal > ImmoralMinority
11/06/2019 at 10:21

WE NEED TO BUILD A WALL AROUND THE FIRES!!!!!

Snuze: Needs another Swede > ImmoralMinority
11/06/2019 at 10:47

I t’s hard to have a conversation in 140 characters and 15 second sound bi tes. And doing stuff that’s hard requires a lot of work, and nobody wants to do work.

ttyymmnn > nermal
11/06/2019 at 11:08

Trump would be glad to build a wall around CA.

Highlander-Datsuns are Forever > ImmoralMinority
11/06/2019 at 11:13

I am genuinely curious as to the history of fires in S onoma county. Fire blazing through the dry hills seems kind of normal for this time of year.

DipodomysDeserti > ImmoralMinority
11/06/2019 at 11:48

The politicalization of climatology and ecology is exhibit one in why we need to increase the education of our populace in regards to the sciences.

The biggest takeaway peo ple should have is that you can’t consider yourself a proponent or a skeptic of scientific ideas if you don’t actually have any knowledge about what’s being studied. You’re ignorant on the subject, and just trusting that the person you’re listening to isn’t.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > DipodomysDeserti
11/06/2019 at 12:14

If I were put in charge one of my very first orders of business would be a drastic overhaul of the education system. And one of the core focuses would be the addition of logic/reasoning because most people are awful at this, civics because most people have no idea how their own government actually works, and scientific literacy because most people also have no idea how science works either .

One of the most formative experiences in my adult life was taking a class in college on the Philosophy of Science. It was eye opening and really changed the way I think about science and the impact science has (or should have) on our lives.

DipodomysDeserti > Snuze: Needs another Swede
11/06/2019 at 12:43

There’re plenty of schools out there that reall y focus on teaching kids in this manner (and not just in science, but in all subjects). The problem is most kids turn into adults who sit at a desk all day, and start lying to themselves about what constitutes “reason” or “logic”.

Snuze: Needs another Swede > DipodomysDeserti
11/06/2019 at 12:52

I guess I didn’t go to one of those schools, I didn’t get taught any of that stuff. Or if I did I don’t remember it. Actually, t hat might be ( part of) the problem - it’s not turning into an adult who sits at a desk, it’s that you need to learn this stuff early on for it to have any hope of sticking, which is preciesely the same time that it’s the least interesting thing in the world. This is why nobody learns it early on and now we just have a bunch of dumb adults yelling “ AD HOMENIM! ” and “ STRAW MAN!” in comments sections the internet over.

His Stigness > ImmoralMinority
11/06/2019 at 15:46

I feel like at a State level we have been properly blaming PG&E and SCE for the fires, not climate change.

And it appears from the article, that seems to be the case.

SilentButNotReallyDeadly...killed by G/O Media > ImmoralMinority
11/06/2019 at 16:48

Ahh...the science of fire and why everything you/we /they know is wrong. We’ve been going around that squared circle since well before I started my career in natural resource management nearly 30 years ago.

I can’t speak for California but, around here, it’s a combination of resourcing (mostly declining) , land management decisions (both good and bad), land use decisions (both good and bad but mostly bad ), politics (rarely good) and indecision.

This combination is then exacerbated by our shifting climate which has extended the length of the fire season and reduced the windows of opportunity to do effective fuel reduction (hazard reduction burning) in the cooler months. Essentially, it has reduced our management options even further...

The science of fire is reasonably well understood. The politics of fire is what is truly fucking things up...